Several recently introduced deep learning optimizers utilizing matrix-level preconditioning have shown promising speedups relative to the current dominant optimizer AdamW, particularly in relatively small-scale experiments. However, efforts to validate and replicate their successes have reported mixed results. To better understand the effectiveness of these optimizers at scale, in this work we investigate how to scale preconditioned optimizers via hyperparameter transfer, building on prior works such as µP. We study how the optimal learning rate and weight decay should scale with model width and depth for a wide range of optimizers, including Shampoo, SOAP, and Muon, accounting for the impact of commonly used techniques such as blocking and grafting. We find that scaling the learning rate according to µP improves transfer, but can still suffer from significant finite-width deviations that cause drifting optimal learning rates, which we show can be mitigated by blocking and explicit spectral normalization. For compute-optimal scaling, we find scaling independent weight decay as 1/width is nearly optimal across optimizers. Applying these scaling rules, we show Muon, SOAP and Shampoo consistently achieve near 1.4 speedup over AdamW for training Llama-architecture language models of sizes ranging from 190M to 1.4B, whereas the speedup vanishes rapidly with scale under incorrect scaling. Based on these results and further ablations, we argue that studying optimal hyperparameter transfer is essential for reliably comparing optimizers at scale given a realistic tuning budget.

Training deep neural networks is a structured optimization problem, because the parameters are naturally represented by matrices and tensors rather than by vectors. Under this structural representation, it has been widely observed that gradients are low-rank and Hessians are approximately block diagonal. These structured properties are crucial for designing efficient optimization algorithms, but are not utilized by many current popular optimizers like Adam. In this paper, we present a novel optimization algorithm ASGO that capitalizes on these properties by employing a preconditioner that is adaptively updated using structured gradients. By a fine-grained theoretical analysis, ASGO is proven to achieve superior convergence rates compared to existing structured gradient methods. Based on this convergence theory, we further demonstrate that ASGO can benefit from low-rank gradients and block diagonal Hessians. We also discuss practical modifications of ASGO and empirically verify ASGO's effectiveness on language model tasks.

We develop a gradient flow on the space of probability measures defined on matrix-valued parameters induced by regularized Muon, an analytically smoothed version of the idealized Muon optimizer. The key observation is that the regularized orthogonalization map is the gradient of a smooth Fenchel-dual smoothing of the nuclear norm. This identifies the (regularized) Muon update as a mirror/prox step in the update variable, with momentum acting as the dual coordinate. We use this structure to lift Muon from a single matrix parameter to finite-particle probability objectives of the form $J(ρ)=R\left(\int F d ρ\right)$, a setting motivated by mean-field descriptions of neural-network training, and derive the inertial continuous-time limit. Using this structure, we derive the finite-particle continuous-time limit under the inertial scaling of step size and momentum, and then pass to a phase-space mean-field equation over probability laws on parameter-momentum pairs. The resulting flow can be shown to be a damped Hamiltonian probability dynamics whose kinetic energy is induced by the regularized Muon mirror potential. We prove an exact Hamiltonian dissipation identity, showing that the Hamiltonian energy decreases monotonically. While the target objective itself need not be monotone along the inertial Muon dynamics, under additional gradient-dominance, bounded-momentum, and curvature/alignment assumptions, we obtain continuous and discrete-time exponential convergence rates for the objective gap. We also study the well-posedness of the mean-field limit equation and establish propagation of chaos guarantees for the interacting particle system. Finally, we extend the formulation to Hilbert-valued feature maps on product matrix spaces, yielding a blockwise Muon probability flow applicable to smooth transformer mixture-of-experts models.

Muon has recently emerged as a strong alternative to AdamW for training neural networks, with encouraging large-scale pretraining results and growing evidence that matrix-structured updates can be faster in practice. Yet Muon, and more generally Linear Minimization Oracle (LMO) based methods, are typically used synchronously. This is problematic in heterogeneous distributed systems, where workers complete gradient computations at different speeds and synchronous training must repeatedly wait for slower workers. In this work, we introduce Ringmaster LMO, an asynchronous LMO-based momentum method for unconstrained stochastic nonconvex optimization. Our method builds on the delay-thresholding idea of Ringmaster ASGD. For SGD-type methods, Ringmaster ASGD achieves optimal time complexity by discarding overly stale gradients. Ringmaster LMO extends this mechanism to general LMO-based updates. We establish convergence guarantees under generalized $(L_0, L_1)$-smoothness and further develop a parameter-agnostic variant with decreasing stepsizes and adaptive delay thresholds. Finally, we translate our iteration guarantees into time complexity bounds under heterogeneous worker computation times. In the classical Euclidean smooth setting, these bounds recover the optimal time complexity of Ringmaster ASGD. Experiments on stochastic quadratic problems and NanoChat language-model pretraining show that the advantages of Ringmaster LMO grow with system heterogeneity and that the method outperforms strong synchronous and asynchronous baselines.

The recent empirical success of the Muon optimizer has renewed interest in non-Euclidean optimization, typically justified by similarities with second-order methods, and linear minimization oracle (LMO) theory. In this paper, we challenge this geometric narrative through three contributions, demonstrating that precise geometric structure is not the key factor affecting optimization performance. First, we introduce Freon, a family of optimizers based on Schatten (quasi-)norms, powered by a novel, provably optimal QDWH-based iterative approximation. Freon naturally interpolates between SGD and Muon, while smoothly extrapolating into the quasi-norm regime. Empirically, the best-performing Schatten parameters for GPT-2 lie strictly within the quasi-norm regime, and thus cannot be represented by any unitarily invariant LMO. Second, noting that Freon performs well across a wide range of exponents, we introduce Kaon, an absurd optimizer that replaces singular values with random noise. Despite lacking any coherent geometric structure, Kaon matches Muon's performance and retains classical convergence guarantees, proving that strict adherence to a precise geometry is practically irrelevant. Third, having shown that geometry is not the primary driver of performance, we demonstrate it is instead controlled by two local quantities: alignment and descent potential. Ultimately, each optimizer must tune its step size around these two quantities. While their dynamics are difficult to predict a-priori, evaluating them within a stochastic random feature model yields a precise insight: Muon succeeds not by tracking an ideal global geometry, but by guaranteeing step-size optimality.

We introduce Pion, a spectrum-preserving optimizer for large language model (LLM) training based on orthogonal equivalence transformation. Unlike additive optimizers such as Adam and Muon, Pion updates each weight matrix through left and right orthogonal transformations, preserving its singular values throughout training. This yields an optimization mechanism that modulates the geometry of weight matrices while keeping their spectral norm fixed. We derive the Pion update rule, systematically examine its design choices, and analyze its convergence behavior along with several key properties. Empirical results show that Pion offers a stable and competitive alternative to standard optimizers for both LLM pretraining and finetuning.

Muon and its variants have shown strong empirical performance in a variety of deep learning tasks. Existing convergence analyses of Muon rely on smoothness assumptions, though arguably the most successful function class for developing deep learning methods (such as AdaGrad, Shampoo, Schedule-Free and more) has been the class of convex and Lipschitz functions. In this paper we question whether the classical convex Lipschitz model is a useful one for understanding Muon. Our answer is no. We show that Muon does not converge on the class of convex and Lipschitz functions, regardless of the choice of learning rate schedule. We also show that error feedback restores convergence of Muon and all the non-Euclidean subgradient methods with momentum. However, this theoretical fix using error feedback degrades the performance of Muon in two representative settings for image classification (CIFAR-10) and language modeling (nanoGPT on FineWeb-Edu 10B). Our conclusion is that convex Lipschitz theory, despite having a prominent role in the design of practical methods for deep learning, is not the most suited one for Muon. This suggests that Muon's success must come from structure absent from this model, most plausibly related to smoothness.

Training loss and throughput can hide distinct internal representation in language-model training. To examine these hidden mechanics, we use spectral measurements as practical and operational diagnostics. Using a controlled family of decoder-only models adapted from the modded NanoGPT codebase, we introduce an empirical protocol based on activation covariance and per-sample gradient SVD spectra. This dual-view reveals three empirical findings and one mechanistic explanation. First, batch size acts as a latent determinant of representation geometry: runs that reach equal loss settle into systematically distinct activation spectra. Second, the activation covariance tail measured early in training reliably forecasts downstream token efficiency. Third, movement of the activation spectrum head (leading modes), together with gradient spectra, characterizes underlying learning-dynamics changes, separating learning-side architectural improvements from primarily execution-side gains. These predictive and diagnostic signals persist across the 12-, 36-, and 48-layer model tiers. Finally, a mechanistic model proves the main observations and explains how activation covariance spectra correlate with task-aligned feature learning.

Spectral optimizers such as Muon have recently shown strong empirical performance in large-scale language model training, but the source and extent of their advantage remain poorly understood. We study this question through the linear associative memory problem, a tractable model for factual recall in transformer-based models. In particular, we go beyond orthogonal embeddings and consider Gaussian inputs and outputs, which allows the number of stored associations to greatly exceed the embedding dimension. Our main result sharply characterizes the recovery rates of one step of Muon and SGD on the logistic regression loss under a power law frequency distribution. We show that the storage capacity of Muon significantly exceeds that of SGD, and moreover Muon saturates at a larger critical batch size. We further analyze the multi-step dynamics under a thresholded gradient approximation and show that Muon achieves a substantially faster initial recovery rate than SGD, while both methods eventually converge to the information-theoretic limit at comparable speeds. Experiments on synthetic tasks validate the predicted scaling laws. Our analysis provides a quantitative understanding of the signal amplification of Muon and lays the groundwork for establishing scaling laws across more practical language modeling tasks and optimizers.

We study the implicit bias of momentum-based optimizers on homogeneous models. We first extend existing results on the implicit bias of steepest descent in homogeneous models to normalized steepest descent with an optional learning rate schedule. We then show that for smooth homogeneous models, momentum steepest descent algorithms like Muon (spectral norm), MomentumGD ($\ell_2$ norm), and Signum ($\ell_\infty$ norm) are approximate steepest descent trajectories under a decaying learning rate schedule, proving that these algorithms too have a bias towards KKT points of the corresponding margin maximization problem. We extend the analysis to Adam (without the stability constant), which maximizes the $\ell_\infty$ margin, and to Muon-Signum and Muon-Adam, which maximize a hybrid norm. Our experiments corroborate the theory and show that the identity of the margin maximized depends on the choice of optimizer. Overall, our results extend earlier lines of work on steepest descent in homogeneous models and momentum-based optimizers in linear models.