The Potential of Second-Order Optimization for LLMs: A Study with Full Gauss-Newton

Recent efforts to accelerate LLM pretraining have focused on computationally-efficient approximations that exploit second-order structure. This raises a key question for large-scale training: how much performance is forfeited by these approximations? To probe this question, we establish a practical upper bound on iteration complexity by applying full Gauss-Newton (GN) preconditioning to transformer models of up to 150M parameters. Our experiments show that full GN updates yield substantial gains over existing optimizers, achieving a 5.4x reduction in training iterations compared to strong baselines like SOAP and Muon. Furthermore, we find that a precise layerwise GN preconditioner, which ignores cross-layer information, nearly matches the performance of the full GN method. Collectively, our results suggest: (1) the GN approximation is highly effective for preconditioning, implying higher-order loss terms may not be critical for convergence speed; (2) the layerwise Hessian structure contains sufficient information to achieve most of these potential gains; and (3) a significant performance gap exists between current approximate methods and an idealized layerwise oracle. With rising compute requirements for training large language models (LLMs), improving optimization methods has become a central strategy for improving training efficiency. Better optimizers can directly reduce the serial runtime to train an LLM, which is crucial for large-scale models that train from days to months. Optimization for LLMs has traditionally leveraged first-order methods such as SGD and Adam (Kingma & Ba, 2017).